Christinecgb: Do you like having room to move then? I noticed on one of your stories you had "because I can" in the headings - do you like writing a pairing that could be perceived to be impossible?

Ellen M: Absolutely. I love it when somebody says to me, "You know, I didn't think it could be done..." Which, I mean, happens in some rare het pairings, too. Like CJ/Sam.

Christinecgb: Now there's a het pairing you've done a few times - why CJ/Sam?

Ellen M: It's so noir. She looks like she needs long cigarettes, and he's just such a beautiful manchild. They're both such outsiders. And their personalities absolutely let me play with power dynamics.

Christinecgb: Is there a difference between what you like to read and what you like to write? Would you like to read more CJ/Sam for instance?

Ellen M: I don't think so. Because I don't want to see it messed up, if that makes any sense. I really read very little West Wing fic at all these days, and I really try to stay away from girl-slash when I don't know the writer. Which is selfish, but there's just too much chance of it being something ridiculous.

Christinecgb: what do you enjoy writing when it comes to girl-slash, then? What do you like to do with your characters?

Ellen M: I like seeing how it can be done keeping them in character. That's the allure, I guess, the challenge. I like to make them a little too drunk just to see what happens. I like talking about clothing and perfumes and wines. It's all very sensual, because women are, in general,very sensual characters, because they're usually youngish, thin, beautiful.

Christinecgb: Have you noticed a leaning towards getting them drunk in girl-slash? I have to admit that when I was trying to write Scully/Mac (from JAG) i found myself in a real dilemma because Mac is a teetotaller and I couldn't think of how to get them together.

Ellen M: I totally have noticed it. Everyone has to be under the influence. It's because, you know, women don't just accidentally fall into bed together. Though, I would argue that it happens more often than men accidentally fall into bed together. But it's easier to assume that a canonically straight character (like Josh Lyman) is secretly gay than to assume that a canonically ambiguous character (like CJ Cregg) is a lesbian.

Christinecgb: Why do you think that is?

Ellen M: I'm not sure. I've thought about it before, but-- it's a societal thing, too. I mean, we can totally believe that an attractive businessman is gay. But we're much slower to believe that anybody but, like, Ani Difranco or Ellen Degeneres is a lesbian. People think they're obvious. I would say that, in many cases, it's worse to be a lesbian than gay, in that respect. And people tend to think of lesbianism as a phase, a fad... Josh could be secretly gay all these years, but CJ could never have been secretly lesbian. It's just not something that would cross people's minds.

Christinecgb: So what inspire you to slash a pairing? What starts the thought processes off?

Ellen M: I love pretty women. Especially pretty, in-control women. It's a personal attraction, which makes girlslash a little Mary Sue'ish, at least in that respect. Honestly, that's all it takes.I've seen three episodes of Farscape, and already I'm thinking, "Mmm, Aeryn." Or Hoshi and T'Pol from Enterprise, from the first episode.

Christinecgb: But what on Earth made you decide to pair CJ with Ainsley?

Ellen M: Hmmm. Well, I love Ainsley. She's so vaguely awkward, and she's a Republican, and she's feisty. I like that in a woman. And CJ was so pissed when Ainsley came around, and so there was already this tension there...

Christinecgb: Have you got a favourite character to write?

Ellen M: CJ, absolutely. That's really why West Wing came as such a renaissance for me.

Christinecgb: What is it about CJ?

Ellen M: She's such a professional, but she's got all these crazy quirks. She's totally awkward, and she makes mistakes. She's nontraditionally beautiful, all arms and legs. She's the kind of woman that makes straight girls swoon.

Christinecgb: That's interesting that you say that, because I have a theory that there are some women on television who inspire straight girls to slash - I would suggest Janeway is another.

Ellen M: Yes, absolutely. It's a power thing.

Christinecgb: How about Scully?

Ellen M: I love Scully, but nothing about her really drove me to girl-slash until Reyes came around. And I'm finding it really hard to regain my X-Files muse, you know? There were just too few secondary characters, and the ones that were there were majority men. And the secondary women were evil without redeeming quality, like Fowley.

Christinecgb: Actually, I found Reyes far more slashy to me than Scully. And I have a thing for Sarah MacKenzie in JAG which made me think of the Scully/Mac combo - are there other characters that you can think of that have this sort of quality?

Ellen M: Reyes is far more slashy, I think because she's being written/played as somebody who's obviously attracted to both Scully and Doggett. Hmm. Miss Parker from the Pretender, absolutely.

Christinecgb: How do you feel about slashing women who are obviously in relationships (such as Abbey)?

Ellen M: A little weird, I have to say. Because it's hard. You have the added problem of trying to convince the audience that you're not totally anticanon. Because, I think you can't write a really good piece if you seriously have to ignore canon. So, you have to make it circumspect and believable and sexy at the same time, it's a big struggle (Sexy is sort of interesting. It's rare to see serious girl-slash romance.)

Christinecgb: So it's all about sex? That's goddamn interesting - why do you think that is?

Ellen M: Well, isn't it? I can think of maybe one serious romance in girl-slash (this ongoing Scullyslash piece). But other than that -- I mean, I started to tread into that territory with my CJ/Ann stuff-- and people were liking it, wanted to know what would happen. Because... I'm not sure. Because that's not the fun part. The homophobia, and that stuff-- people have no concept that lesbians go on dates, really, or buy groceries or any of those things. Which is weird, because it's lesbians writing it. Maybe that's why. We don't want to write about relationships -- we're either having them or we aren't. If we are, we don't need to write about it. If we aren't, we're bitter and don't want to talk about it. The sex is what gets us.

Christinecgb: Right - my hetero characters aren't usually in relationships either. Is it just not seen to be as interesting? To write or read?

Ellen M: I guess not. And it seems unrealistic. I mean, if you assume that the women are straight... and that this is just a one-night deal, there's no reason to ever write about a relationship. I mean, it's the difference between CJ/Ainsley and CJ/Toby. People can assume CJ and Toby would live together, etc. but CJ and Ainsley? Whaaa?

Christinecgb: True. and there doesn't seem to be any novel length girl-slash either - and no ongoing WIPs. It's really just a quick fuck in the alleyway isn't it?

Ellen M: It really is. And I perpetrate that as much as anyone.

Christinecgb: Do you think there's a pairing out there you could devote a large story to?

Ellen M: I was thinking you might ask that, so I was trying to antcipate my answer... but... I guess it'd have to be with CJ, but it just wouldn't be possible while she was working in the White House. Or maybe that would be the driving conflict, or something. But I think it would have to be an original character. Because there's really nothing realistic on the show. Also, I'd really like to dig into the possibilities of Abby and Susan on ER.

Christinecgb: Funnily enough - the only long-ish femme-slash I can think of is written by a guy who writes Trek fic. It's a marvellous story if you can get your hands on it - It's called Dove by R Schulz (TNG). But how do you feel about girl-slash written by guys?

Ellen M: I think it's been given a bad rap. I mean, it's essentially the same as boy-slash written by girls, isn't it? Except, we tend to think of f/f as porn and m/m as erotica. So, it's okay for women (much less the stereotypical porn fiends) to write boyslash than it is for guys to write f/f, which is looked at as just writing porn to get off. And I think girls do it just as much, just writing to get off.

Christinecgb: Actually, I think that's an interesting idea - does it really get us off? I actually find writing tiring and painful and especially the sex parts. It's about as erotic as programming the VCR. Don't you find it's more fun to read than write?

Ellen M: Ha! But the VCR is so sexy! It doesn't get me off. Even the stuff other people has said was totally erotic, I'm like, "Yeah, well, was a bitch to edit. It's all thinking about placement of clothing and hands and mouths and furniture. It's mental gymnastics. It's definitely more fun to read when done right. I can just imagine you fighting with the VCR! Ha!

Christinecgb: Yeah - but I'm bigger than it. It's humiliating - letting it get the better of me.

Do you have any further comments on girl-slash in general?

Ellen M: Hmm. I think girl-slash is a totally underappreciated subgenre. And people think they can do it without regard to the actual characters, just husks of them. Which is, clearly, untrue. But it's a drug. Once you start writing it and looking for it, it's impossible not to see the girl-slash possibilities, if you're up to the challenge.

Christinecgb: And it *is* a challenge isn't it?

Ellen M: It absolutely is. But a delicious one.

Christinecgb: Well let's get on to your work then - if you had to rec a few of your own stories to read - what would you pick and why?

Ellen M: Argh, talk about a difficult question...Well, I guess... I really like Metallic Luster which is a Pretender/West Wing crossover, Miss Parker/CJ. I like it mostly because I think I stay relatively true to both of them and make it sort of slick and sexy without having to sell either of them out. And it's a sensual thing, with bright lights and cigarettes.

Ellen M: Probably also The Second Law of Thermodynamics, which is a Sports Night Dana/Natalie. Because Dana/Natalie doesn't make any sense. Like, there's really no chemistry between them at all, but I feel like I made something work. And because I like the pacing, the timing, the tremulousness of the love between them. And they are in love, and that makes it different than a lot of what I've written. Arrgh, this is impossible. For instance, in West Wing, I have a bunch of favorites (Show Me State, Decorated, Hotels in the Dark)...

Christinecgb: Can I say I'm particularly fond of Hotels in the Dark?

Ellen M: Then you can talk about that one. ;-) I'm going to say Decorated. Because it has a plot, and it's about a relationship between two women, focusing on an original character. It wasn't widely read, but I'd say it was some of my best writing, technically, ever.

Christinecgb: Cool - I watched "The Fall's Going to Kill You" after I read that story (Hotels in the Dark) and I couldn't help but read undertones in the whole scene. Abbey says "I wanted to be there when they told you" - it was such an intimate thing to say. "Hotels" had such a visual feel and without ever seeeing TFGTKY I had just the right picture in my head.

Ellen M: Wow, I'm sort of really touched. It was the first time I had tangibly felt subtext between them. And then, by the time we get to "Dead Irish Poets", Abbey walks up to CJ and says, "You look beautiful," in such an intimate way. I mean, it's sort of a throwaway, but that's the one with the drinking party.

Christinecgb: Shall we rec other people now? Make life easier for you?

Ellen M: This might be equally hard. ;-) But... Let's see. How about Love and Techno (BTVS) by Jennifer-Oksana. Very hot. Hth's Pink Ladies (BTVS) is really fantastic. I also really liked your own Bound To Be Moving On (TWW) and also Eyes Grow Feet(TWW). Also, Twinkledru J's Two Years and Four Months (BTVS), Teanna's In the Morning (TWW). Also, Pene's Closet To Keep You In (TWW).

Ellen Milholland, if you haven't gathered already, writes girl-slash and damn is it cool! She has written for Star Trek: Voyager, The X-Files, The West Wing, The Pretender, Sports Night and ER. For more Ellen M. check out her website http://www.bluelikethat.com/radiance/imagine.html

Christinecgb writes for "Easter Egg Vinegar in Your Eyes" and formats articles in her spare time. She's written girlslash for Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: The Original Series and The West Wing. And she is currently co-coordinator of The Wing Swing for those who can't get enough girlslash action.